Empire State Climbers & Transgender Athletes

0:03You know, everybody at one point or another is going to have to ask themself, "What would you do for love?" That four-letter word that all of us act irrationally over. What would you do? For the love of your partner, for the love of your kids, for the love of your friends, your family. What would you do? How How important is love for you? And for a couple in New York, they had a very clear definition of what love meant for them, what they were willing to do for love. On July 1st, 2026, Midtown Manhattan came to a standstill as two daredevils scaled the Empire State Building's transmission tower. They They knew this wasn't going to be easy. This wasn't going to be a simple get down on your knees, you know, I've always loved you since the day I met you, blah blah blah blah blah blah No, this was going to be intricate. It was going to be dangerous.

0:58Clinging to the narrow 1,400-ft spire with that without any visible safety harness or tethers, the pair unfurled a massive black banner with white lettering that read, "When the power of love beats the love of power, the world knows peace." What would you do? What would you do for love? How much does she mean to you? How much does he mean to you? Because you can't you can't do it alone. You can't do this type of thing alone. You can't just propose from the top of the Empire State Building. You got to You got to go with him. It's got to be a couple kind of thing. And the climbers were quickly identified as Angela Nik- Nik- Nikalou? Nikalou? And Ivan Beerkus. These These are some names. A prominent Russian, that explains a lot. That explains a lot. A prominent Russian rooftopping couple who were the focus of the 2024 Netflix documentary, Skywalkers: A Love Story.

1:55Um I never watched that one. Um, I'm assuming it's a powerful love story with a love like this. With a love so fearless, so bold. Dressed in matching black outfits and initially wearing face coverings, the two bypassed security around midday. Onlookers on the public observation deck below watched them slip through a mesh gate on the 103rd floor in the area strictly reserved for mechanical and water tower maintenance. Look, it it doesn't matter. They don't care about your silly little rules. It doesn't really matter what you think, society. Their love knows no bounds. And honestly, I I hate to say it because for the most part, I do I do believe in public safety. You know, I think that there are some laws in place that is there in the disguise of being for public safety, but it's not really.

2:52But when there are true laws in place that's supposed to keep people safe, I'm I'm a fan. What can I say? I like them. So, it's not it's not my first my first instinct to automatically root for the for the rule breakers, for the bad guys, for the criminals, you know? But this, how can you not? How can you not root for a story like this, a true love story like this, when the power of love beats the love of power? The world knows peace. I've One thing I noticed when I was looking into this, when I saw this story, one thing I noticed, not many people were they weren't really talking about the sign because it's it's a powerful message. What can What can I say? I I kind of I got to root for these for these people. They they they are an example of what love could be. They are an example of the the new heights that somebody is willing to take to prove their love. So, without further ado, the couple of 2026, everybody.

4:00How did these daredevils manage to slip through unnoticed and climb to the top of one of the world's most iconic skyscrapers? At them.

4:09Investigative reporter Dan Krauth continues our coverage and is here now. Dan.

4:13Liz, right now the NYPD is reviewing surveillance video from inside the Empire State Building. The two appear to access the spire from a hatch on the 102nd floor, one that's usually used for maintenance. It's the proposal seen around the world. Oh, look at that. Oh, wow. At one of the country's most iconic buildings. Look, how can you How can you not root for this? I was former NYPD who now works in corporate security. Imagine investigating this.

4:38Real estate security's worst nightmare is someone getting access to the the roof or ledges of their building.

4:45I spoke with an engineer who said the Empire State Building work that's usually only done at night when the antenna and the radiation emitting from it is turned off. He says the couple would have had to made their way past the main observation deck here all the way up to the top deck that's circular and enclosing glass. Inside here is a locked metal door preventing people from going up any further. Ladies and gentlemen, that is the power of love.

5:07But I just seen them open the door and then I react.

5:10One visitor tells us she witnessed the duo open the door, thought they worked there.

5:14I looked at these two people and they opened the mesh door and just went upstairs. So, I assumed that they worked there. So, nobody stopped them. How they got the door open? It was in the door and they was in love.

5:27They didn't just stumble upon that hatch. There There was what we would call pre-observational surveillance. Someone cased the joint, if you will.

5:36Oh, lord. They cased the joint? Old school. Old school right here. Imagine investigating this. Imagine investigating this. They cased the joint. It was a proposal. And that lady they opened the door. She knew She knew what they were there for. She knew they didn't work there. But look, that's how That's how a lot of us are. I said I wouldn't root for the person breaking the rules. Under very, and I mean very, few circumstances would I be the person pointing my finger, calling out a person breaking the rules. And I feel like, especially in New York, they're they're known for that. Everybody knows that New York is known for this. Especially in New York, people are very happy to just walk on by. They are happy to just keep on going. And I I I I honestly think that this is healthy.

6:35It's a healthy thing. They obviously they could have been, you know, some terrorists or some like that, going up there to to blow something up. Thank God it wasn't that. They were just trying to blow up social media with their love. They wanted to show everybody what love can do, where you can go. They don't even They still don't even know how they slipped past. They must have cased the joint, and they really Yes, they did. They cased the joint.

7:06They sure did, buddy. They sure did. And this is what love does. So, I think more people should be like that that lady. I mean, she still wanted her 15 seconds of fame, so she She did the interview. She's happy she did the interview. She's telling everybody about this interview. And that's okay. She is, you know, live and let live. I think that might be the the motto of today's episode. And honestly, it's it's something that we here at uh Get Xuded, we we endorse heavily. We support it. And and yeah, live and let live. She She just wanted her 15 seconds of fame, but more people need to be like her. She saw them. She knew that they didn't work there. They obviously didn't work there. They had a mask. They They didn't look like people that worked there. They weren't in uniform. Yes, they were matching in the way that, you know, a masked robber with their accomplice will match.

8:05So, I think she covered her ass. It was smart. I think it was obvious that she knew what was going on. Hey, look, I saw I saw them go up there. I don't even know what accent What accent was that? It's like like Scottish or some I don't know. I don't know. I'll tell you what, whatever country she came from, they know how to mind their business. All right? In New York, as much as it sucks that you basically could probably get stabbed on the street and everybody would just keep walking by. New York is known for that. So, she knew which city that she was going to have to go to. I think more people need to be like that. Live and let live. Live and let love. The power of love. L O V E, that four-letter word that people do dangerous, crazy, stupid things for. And yet, they are They're going to jail. The high-altitude political statement quickly evolved into a dramatic romantic spectacle after displaying the banner for roughly 30 minutes as NYPD helicopters and drones circled overhead.

9:08So, it wasn't It wasn't just like, "Hey, we are We're protesting this. You guys are killing innocent people all around the globe just because, you know, you are the strongest country in the world, blah blah blah blah. You know, we we just want an end to it. You know, that that little thing called peace that people have been wanting. That most people want. They just want peace. And hey, if we embrace the power of love instead of loving all of this power, maybe we could know peace. Like I said, most people weren't really talking about the sign. It was more how did they do this? This is This is a breach of security. This is a a huge issue. They got there. What if this was a terrorist? This could be a terrorist. This is why, even though they have a completely, you know, reasonable protesting sign. I mean, I guess you could call it a protest. How many people really protest this?

10:04Is it a protest if the majority of the country is agreeing with it? It's not really a protest. You usually have to protest when you're going against the majority or the powerful. In this case, it's only the powerful. If you ask the average everyday citizen of America, I think they would say, "Yeah. I think I think peace could be good." You know, anybody that is like one of these neocons, these warhawks, these people that just want war after war after war. And this is exactly how we have to continue society is to get the terrorists. And you know, if the terrorists were in this building, I think those people might be like, "Nah. I think I think peace is Peace? Do we really need peace? I think it might be overrated. Have we ever known peace? Has humanity ever known peace? Think about history. Why do you think that is? Why do you think we've never known peace? So, yeah. Let's Let's Let's go to war.

11:00We're We're at multiple right now. I think I think those people might be a little bit salty even answering this. Why is this Is this even a question? Of course, I don't want peace. peace. Why would I want peace? Let's go to Iran. Let's go to Syria. Let's go to Lebanon. Why would we Why would we want peace? I think, besides those people, everybody's going to say, "Yeah, peace sounds like a good idea. Peace sounds like, I don't know, a world that I would want my kids and my kids' kids and all of that to grow up. And maybe life could be better for everybody. Maybe if we weren't constantly trying to take control over other nations, over their resources, trying to take control over their their regime. Make sure that somebody that is on board with what's happening and and all of that, making sure that somebody like that is installed.

11:55Maybe if we just we just cut all that out. And I think that's why you can't really argue with the sign. All you can say is they're daredevils. Devils. Daredevils. They chose that on purpose. They didn't say courageous. They didn't say bold. They didn't say, "Oh my gosh, can you believe these people that were already known for climbing skyscrapers?" Apparently, again, I've never seen it. Never heard of these Russian people. I'm a fan now. Tell you that much. I won't follow their story, but I'm a fan from afar. I like the concept, okay? I like the concept of their love. It makes me feel good. So, they were already known for for doing this. It's not like it's unheard of for people to climb skyscrapers. Can't call them an athlete. Can't call them uh these I don't know, TV stars? What do you What do you call them?

12:50These these professional climbers? No, you call them daredevils. Devils. Imagine if it was the terrorists. Imagine this is a security breach. You say things like security breach and daredevils. Devils. Devils. You You start saying these things. Make sure you say it six times on Sundays. You have to You have to keep repeating this and eventually people are going to be like, "Oh my god, they're bad. They're bad." And they might be, I don't know. They might be. They did break rules, right? Life is black and white. There's no gray area. They did break rules. They broke protocol. You know you can't be up there. You cased the joint. You cased it.

13:28The romantic interlude was short-lived. Members of the NYPD's elite emergency services unit scaled the tower's internal ladders. They're daredevils. Those are some daredevils. And I know that was sarcasm. I'm sorry. I apologize for my sarcastic tone. I uh I'm not one of those people that say the police. I did when I was younger. Got into some trouble. I was just trying to smoke weed. Don't understand the issue. It is just weed. But wrong state, I understand. Rule breaker. Devil. Daredevil. Devil. Devil.

14:03But I get it. They uh they serve a purpose. Abolish the police. Shut up. Until something happened to you. So I get it's an elite team. But how come when uh when they do it it's courageous. But when the people that are just saying hey, let's just bomb stuff. It's not I'm I'm just saying I'm just trying to I'm trying to look at the words that people use to characterize, to define the different acts of people. And I'm not saying I disagree, by the way. That's not what I was saying. I wasn't saying that they they weren't courageous. I wasn't saying that at all. I'm just saying that you didn't say you got a team of daredevils on the uh the NYPD's elite team or whatever. No. You got You got people that they they knew exactly what they had to do. They did their job. All of that good And um yeah. It's It's just kind of It's like that thing where Have you ever seen a situation where you'll see one story where it's usually let's be real.

15:10It's usually like a white team compared to a black team. You'll see you know, let's say they both done done some sort of crime. With the white team it's like young young student of You You what I mean? It'll be something like that Where's like, "Oh, it's a young student accidentally did this and this is how his life got turned upside down." And then for the black teen, it's usually something like "We have a young gang member with tattoos all over known for drug abuse and it's some like that. I feel like, you know, let's just call it what it is. It was they there are some brave people, all of them. NYPD's elite team that decided to climb that and the the people that decided to climb up for the proposal. That's That's two types of brave. Um you know, you got you got one type of brave where it's your it's your job. You got to do it. It pays the bills. This is how you feed your family. And you know you're one of the elite. your your team says elite.

16:08You know you're one of the elite. But you got you got the renegade. You got the couple that says, "We're a different type of brave. We know that we are going to be looked at as crazy, as daredevils." As daredevils. And we do it for love. I don't know. I can't help but root for them. It feels It feels like life is turning into a movie. It doesn't It doesn't feel real. Did you ever When did we When did When did things like this happen? For a proposal? And not just that, you know what? While we're here, two birds, one stone. Let's go ahead and roll out a um a little a little sign. Not to say down with the fascists or you know, Trump or anything that's violent like that. We're going to promote peace. What can you say? What can you say? So, they they did get charged. They ended up going to jail. And they said uh apparently uh an officer greeted the pair landing saying, "Hey, you can't be up here."

17:10Which the boy replied, "We are engaged." I I help but root for these May someone love me as much as Nik and Birkos love each other. May someone love my kids one day that much. Maybe maybe they don't go to these extremes, these heights, these measures.

17:36Maybe they they show it in a different way, but I don't know. Maybe you have to have these grand gestures. And of course they put it all over social media. Of course this wasn't something just between them. They knew this would be talked about. And forever they would be known as the couple of the Empire State Building, the ultimate proposal, the ultimate act of love. We are engaged. That's That might be the realest response. You can't be up here. Sir, ma'am, you you can't you can't be up here. This is a restricted area. You're breaking the rules. We're engaged. It's like the '90s movie when they would just like run through the airport terminal or some like that. And obviously this is before 9/11, before you know, TSA was crazy and like that. But they would just like run through. And of course there's all these protocols. You got to get a ticket and all that Nah, just run.

18:31Why? I'm in love. I got to I got to get to her. There's this girl and I didn't tell her how I feel. And they let you pass because It's love. It's love. It's a powerful It's a powerful thing. That's all I'm going to say. It's a powerful powerful thing. So congrats to the newlywed. And on a on a darker turn in darker news

19:01Those poor that just have to read in another news. They have to make sure their tones go up and down with the story. Cuz you can't be like, "In darker news, fuck." You it up. "16 children were saved in Ohio after being in a horrible, horrible situation. And it is horrible. I'm not trying to make light of this. I know it sounds like I'm just brushing this off. This is 16 children. That's That's 14 more children than than I have. I couldn't conceive of the idea of conceiving. Or I guess not me personally, cuz I'm I'm a guy. And guys can't do that. We'll bring that up later.

19:39Of conceiving that many children. 16 kids? Good lord, have mercy. But this was in Ohio. Apparently, there was a search warrant that came out. Police They had a knock at the door. Hey, we got a search warrant. We're coming in. And they didn't realize that they would find some horrendous Anytime you feel like you see the other side of whatever whatever you you hate, you know, whether you are someone on the left that hates the right, or someone on the right that hates the left. If you are somebody that is a a certain type of religion that hates another type of religion, whatever. Whatever your beef is. You're a certain race that hates another race, whatever. I don't care. I feel like you're stupid, but I'm not trying to judge. Whatever that is. However much you feel like this person is so evil. Donald Trump is ruining the democracy, whatever. You know what I mean? Like what whatever it is.

20:34I'm just I'm using politics cuz it's so it's so easy. People get so heated about the other side. It's something where you see these tribal wars. Where the other side is such an existential risk to everything. Everybody's Hitler. Everybody is the end of humanity. Everybody is evil. So anytime you look at the other side, and you feel like, "Ah, I can't believe that there are people out there like that. They're just so evil." Right-wingers, left-wingers, progressives, communists, you know what I mean? Socialists. These these Democrats are getting taken over by the socialist. What is what's going to happen if the DSA takes over the the whole nation? If we don't Whatever, shut up. Shut up. You think that's evil? You think that's evil? I will show you evil. Sometimes we need to be reminded.

21:22Today 16 children ranging from an infant to a teenager were rescued from a small home in in Ohio in deplorable conditions. Officials say the children lived in a 12 by 12 area for 1 year. The oldest child was 18 and unable to spell her name. Other children reportedly couldn't speak. The four adults at the home at the time of discovery are under arrest. They were the grandparents and parents of the children. They are Yo. What a grandpa look like that? Including endangering children. They all pleaded not guilty.

21:58Most of our livestock was kept in better conditions than the children. Um it was extremely uh high presence, I'm sure, of bacterial and human uh feces. Uh it was a just a disgusting scene.

22:15Jesus Christ. See, and I I usually when I'm prepping for the show, I usually, to be real, I just I go past these these type of stories. Unfortunately, it's not super uncommon. It's not like these aren't seen. If you were looking for this, you're going to be able to see it. We all know that. Unfortunately, it is it's common knowledge that like this happens. And yet we feel like we can we can look at the other side of somebody's beliefs, ideas. Just because somebody has a different ideology than you, you look at them like some sort of, like I said, some sort of Hitlerian creature, not even human. Somebody that only knows evil, that obviously because they don't agree with you, they must be evil. They must be. Because anybody that believes the opposite of what you believe, surely that's just that's a bad guy.

23:11That's a bad person. I 16 kids in a 12 by 12 room. They had an 18-year-old girl there that couldn't even write. People that the kids that couldn't even I I said people, I'm sorry. Children, kids. Little kids. All the way down to an infant. You had like almost grown teenagers that can't say their names down to an infant. I uh That's that's evil. That's evil. And what's crazy is this these are the type of stories that don't get talked about, that don't get debated on. How do we fix this? How do we get this done? And yeah, I I know like a lot of times it's like a nothing but jokes on this show and like that, but sometimes I just want to talk about some real Sometimes I just want to say we need to wake the up. Wake up. Wake up. It's not just America, obviously clearly.

24:10Look around. Look around. It's it's like all of the Western societies starting to crumble, starting to feel like the way things are is just the way of life. Like we didn't suffer and deal with situations like this for hundreds, thousands of years. This is this was most of our history as people. We're finally and I mean finally, obviously this was a couple people ago, a few people ago. But society is pretty new. Look at since we've been around. You know what I mean? Like if If at it like that, polite society is like a little baby. Stories like Stories like this, they happen all the time. Thank Thank God. And I just What troubled me almost as much as these kids living in that filth, that grant that grandparent What was up with bro's eyes?

25:15They was like He had like one right here and one right here. And I'm not trying to Like I'm not trying to on anybody. I get it. Everybody's born the way they're born. Live and let live. I told you I told you That's the thing. Live and let live. If you want to live like a frog muppet, cool. But when you start You start endangering 16 kids, you you got your kids living there. It's like they're all in cahoots. Just Just four adults and they all played not guilty. Sir, ma'am, creature over there with the eye. I think Um I think you know you're guilty. We all know you're guilty. You can see the feces on the wall. The writing is on the wall, guys. And the writing is in And it just says guilty. I know you can't see it from this perspective, but I just wrote out the first few letters of guilty. That's what's on the wall. You look up guilty.

26:12You look up child endangerment. You look up all the different things they're being charged with, and you're going to see a picture of that frog muppet guy. The grandparent. And the other three, but I'm going to be honest. If you're anything like me, your your eyes are going to be focused on the grandpa. It was That was a sight. That was a sight. So, real evil exists. Real creatures exist, okay? We just saw one. And I would feel bad, but look what he did to his grandkids. that guy. Right? It's not me standing up to that thing.

26:53God, you got to laugh. You got to laugh in these times. And see, now you understand why I why I was rooting for the couple that that climbed to the top of the Empire State Building for proposal. Talking about we need to know more about the power of love instead of loving power. And that's how the world will know peace. I think it's hard not to root for people like that when you got stories like this. When you got stories like this, so so inhuman that it almost again, it almost feels like we we are just watching a movie. And it's it's not. It's not. And maybe it's because we were never supposed to just be open. I shouldn't know what's happening in Ohio like that. You know? And I get it. It's not like, oh, just the internet made it where it's like they had cable news and like that. So even my parents went on the different news stations.

27:50They they got what was happening states over, but all I'm saying is that's still a very new invention. And looking at the entire human history, you're not supposed to know what's happening towns over. Not supposed to know how many people are getting bombed in Gaza and Lebanon and what we're doing in Iran and all of these things and I just I shouldn't I shouldn't know about earthquakes in Venezuela and I'm not saying I don't want to know. I'm not saying people don't want to know. I'm not saying I I think we should go back. Cuz I I enjoy it. I enjoy this information age that we're in. But I can still realistically look at the situation and say, "Hey, again, human history is human history. Biology is biology. Okay, we're going to get to that one later. This isn't how we were evolved. We weren't evolved to know this. They even say something like you're only supposed to keep up with like 100 people or some like that.

28:49Like your your little tribe, your little area. Clearly that has increased. Clearly the relationship number has increased while the strength of the relationships themselves decrease. It's like you have more in quantity but less in quality. And yeah, I'm just saying we're not built for that is my point. We're not built for that. So yeah, I usually I usually skip these type of things. I usually don't want to include them. It's so dark, you know? It's so uh it's so dark. And maybe to be honest, if I'mma be real with the type of person I am sometimes I just want to put my head in the sand. I just want to I just want to escape. Just nope, la la la la la. I can't hear you. I can't I can't see it. Even things like um like an example, the Charlie Kirk assassination.

29:45I never I never actually watched the video. Uh I just didn't. I believed him. You know, there's there's just there's things like that which is like I don't I don't want to see it. I'd rather not. It's like damn, what happened? It's like yeah, and then that the video was in the HD and you could see all of it. It's like oh. Um it's what's crazy is, you know, I'll go and watch like a horror movie, action movie, thriller movie. It'll have all of these things. So it's not like we as a culture haven't been programmed and readied for this eventuality. You know, how many how many horror movies do you have to see growing up until you are desensitized to all of this and you're fine. I would like to think that I would be fine. Like if I saw some like that happen right in front of me. I know I'm not saying it's a good thing, but if I had to guess, I feel like a lot of people would be fine. Not because like we're a whole bunch of sociopaths that are walking around here, which let's be real, there are a lot of them out there that are just walking around, but I think the average everyday person can still feel okay after seeing some like that.

30:53And kind of just looking at it like, oh, just because we have seen them in so many movies and shows and and everything. Desensitize. We we have grown accustomed to to seeing stuff like that. And even though it wasn't real, even though we knew on some level that oh, this is just Hollywood doing Hollywood effects and you know, it's movie magic and like that. Well, it became more and more real. It became a lot less fake. Don't believe me, go back and look at an old movie from like 40, 50 years ago. In fact, you can watch a movie from every single decade and just look at the progression. It looks a lot less fake. So, when real happens, I feel like, yeah, I think a lot of people would just be like, damn. And yeah, it might be a lot to process. They might need to go talk to a therapist or whatever. Not disparaging therapy or whatever. So sensitive.

31:52I hope you didn't get offended by that. You might need to go talk to your therapist about your sensitivity problem. But yeah, they might they might need to be like they they would talk about it, but I think it would be it would be yeah, it would be more like the talk of the town. Can you believe? Oh, yeah, this happened right in front of me. I just I was right there. Yeah, so it's not because I think I'm going to freak out. I'm going to wig out if I see these things.

32:18It's just yeah, you don't you don't want to I guess it is it is almost human nature to just the ugliest parts of the world, you just ignore it. And then again, we we find these false enemies that are on the opposite side of whatever idea you have that you cling to, that you feel like is your personhood and everything that you stand for and you call them an enemy. You call them a bad guy. When I see like this, you know? And there's obviously levels. You don't have to do some some crazy horrendous to be a bad person, but I think I think it's just I think it's good to to keep a realistic vision of what real evil is. Of what real bad is. It's not the devils that climb up on skyscrapers, which obviously, you know, you're going to have to s- you're going to have to do some time.

33:19You you did break some rules, whatever. You can't call that a bad guy. You know what I mean? So, on to the last segment, the last story, the

33:33The one that I I couldn't wait to talk about. I just couldn't wait. Transgender athletes being banned from sports. Supreme Court upholds state bans. Basically, states get to decide whether or not they want to let transgender athletes compete. And let's let's go ahead and clarify. Compete with the opposite of their biological gender. So, you have a trans girl wanting to you know, compete with the the girls instead of with the boys. So, let's uh let's hear a little bit about this new Supreme Court decision.

34:14At the Supreme Court, the high court has ruled that states do in fact have the authority to ban transgender athletes from taking part in girls and women's school and college sports. This involves two separate cases, both brought by transgender women. It is expected to have wide-ranging implications. Let us bring in our senior legal correspondent Laura Jarrett. I see that you have been sifting through the decision and the descent for some time now. Top lines, what does this mean?

34:45Uh the top line here, Craig, is that all of the states, 27 in fact states that have tried to enact these types of bans, trying to make sure that girls sports teams do not include transgender women and girls both at the college level all the way down to lower school, those bans can now stand. As you mentioned, Craig, this is

35:04All right, I'm going to I'm going to pause it there cuz let's just let's go ahead and just put it out there. 27 states, obviously not all of them, but more than half of the states. I I just be wanting to I just be wanting to talk to these people. I don't want to Like I was saying earlier, I'm not one of those people I'm going to attack you. Oh, you have the opposite idea. I genuinely have never met anybody that's just like, "Yes, trans women should be competing with women." I was about to be like biological and do all that dance. that. We're not doing that today. Okay? Live and let live. I told you, disclaimer, disclaimer, disclaimer, that is the theme of the episode. Live and let live. I don't give a I don't give a I really don't. Live and let live, like I said, if if if you want to do something, cool. When you go when you start to infringe on somebody else's rights, when you start to mess up somebody else's rights and life and all of that that's when that's obviously when laws need to step in.

36:07Live and let live, but don't go murder. Live and let live, but don't go rob somebody. Live and let live, but, you know, maybe you should compete with your gender. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. So, saying that 27 states have already filed something like this. The fact that these these other couple states, and forgive me, I forget which ones it is. I think it's like Pennsylvania or some It's not my state. I live in Georgia. So, it's not mine. But, I know we would be one of them. We would be one of them cuz we we we're like below the Bible Belt. And you know, you know how they are down here. So, two of these these states finally got it passed. And then and she's basically saying the other states that have tried this in the past, this is going to set the precedence going forward. Like, ah, perfect. We get to decide. And they're going to ban it. And let's be let's be clear. They are focusing more on uh girl sports because, you know, it's not it's not really one of those things where it it's kind of always been the argument.

37:15It's kind of it's it's kind of always been the thing. It's really never been about the trans men going into the men's restroom. It's never it's never been about that. It's never been about trans men going into men sports. However, I feel like if we're going to support something like this, it should be both ways. Sorry if you're a trans man and you identify as a boy, but you're a born a girl, you got to compete with the girls or do no sports. I don't know. These these stories as we as we hear, as it's clear to everyone, are rare. It's not like you have whole bunch of kids running around whole bunch of trans athletes trying to compete. This isn't this isn't something that is like a a mass issue. But, it is something that needs to be addressed. What do we do? I I felt like it was simple. I felt like this was something that was cut and dry. You know, you you have some puppies, you have any animal, and you know, you you are breeding like let's say you're breeding some puppies.

38:21When you go to check the gender, what do you do? You You check the You check the gender. It's not something like, "Huh, what should the gender be?" You know, so again, live and let live. I I literally, I personally don't care. People that get so wrapped up in transgender people, unless it is a specific case like this, a specific situation where, again, you're infringing on somebody else's rights. In this case, women athletes. When you're infringing on somebody else's rights, that's when you can speak up, but then you're speaking up about that certain issue. It's the same It's the same thing that people The problem people have that are defending Israel with all of this. You can't You can't critique Israel without being called an anti- anti-Semitic person, without being some sort of devout worshiper of Adolf Hitler himself. It's that same thing. You can't You can't critique anything about transgenderism without being labeled a What is that?

39:19A transgenderist? I don't even know what it is. A hate A hater of transgender people. I don't know. A bigot. A I don't I don't I don't know. I don't know, but there's a clear difference. You know, there is a clear difference. I think I think that common sense got lost somewhere down the line. Um but I'm happy I'm happy that it seems to be making its way back to society.

39:54Involves two different states, West Virginia and Idaho, but the implications are nationwide and far-reaching. The states here said that they had tried to enact these types of bans to protect women's sports, to keep women and girls safe, and also to ensure competition for women and girls sports. And today, the high court, in a divided opinion, saying states can can fact do that without violating the Constitution, without violating federal law. They say here in part Craig in the majority opinion, "Separate sports teams for biological males and biological females are reasonable given the inherent physical differences between the sexes. Allowing only biological females to play on women's and girls sports teams can reduce the risk of physical injury and ensure fair competition." The court going on to say, "What's more, forcing women and girls to play against biological males can deter some women and girls who would otherwise participate in sports from doing so." They go on to explain further that the equal protection clause allows

40:56Oh my god. I can't even It's like she's like saying, "You know, if 1 + 1 were added together, it would equal two. And A, B, and C are the first three letters of the the alphabet." It's like, what Yeah. What are we What are we talking about? What are we talking about? There's no way. I said I just want to talk to somebody. I just want to talk to somebody. Let me Let me Let me hear you. Let me Let me have a conversation with you cuz I feel like I feel like one of one of two things are going to happen. One, I'm going to realize that yeah, you just have you have a different belief system in how the world works. You have a different You have a different a base assumption than I have. I I guess that could be one route, but the more likely route, I feel like, is we're just going to have a calm, civil conversation. I promise I'll be civil. I'm not going to attack you. Not going to do anything like that. Not going to sit here and act like you're an enemy or evil.

41:53We saw evil, real evil. Not going to act like you're evil just because you believe in something that I don't. If we can start from the presumption that the other person has good intentions, then I think that it can it can lead to a healthy outcome. Obviously, if you find out, like I said, one, whereas somebody doesn't have the best of intentions. They they either are ignoring the facts or they're just ignorant to them. And they just want to spout their narrative. That's that's a whole 'nother can of worms. Like the the Faucis of the world. Like he he know that's evil, you know? Saying something that you believed it was true or whatever the whatever. That guy. That is that's the that's that's a the perfect representation, the perfect example of what I'm talking about here. I think I just want to talk to you. I think we would be able to have some understandings.

42:50Hey, everybody everybody deserves to be treated as fairly as possible, right? Yeah, yeah. Now, I'm not saying that we need to tip the scales and change things just because we don't deem something to be fair. I'm looking at you, DEI programs. I think that is not fair. The fact that, you know, you could be a high a high-achieving Asian student and have issues getting into a university just because you are among a whole sea of other high-achieving Asians. Just because it's kind of it's kind of in their culture. And I'm not saying that is like, "Oh, all right, like a racism thing."

43:36It's like statistically, they they they constantly are hitting above their weight class. Speaking of weight classes, why do you think those exist? Why do you think weight classes exist? It's for the fairness. Now, obviously, somebody could be born stronger, but if they're about the same weight as you, let's say it's boxing or MMA, then it's pretty fair. And ignoring the biological differences between men and women. I just don't understand why it's still a debate, a story. Like we can't still be talking about that. I thought I thought this couldn't this couldn't be something that was still debated. That this wasn't real. This wasn't something that people actually had issues with anymore. Again, if I talk to to somebody like that, it's like if everybody should be treated fairly, do you think that it's fair for just because you're transgender you should be able to have an advantage over a biological girl, biologically born or whatever the This is so it's so stupid.

44:42It's so stupid. Let's not even Let's not even say like like like you're you're a whole 'nother thing. Let's transgender. Cool, you're a transgender girl. Let's not say you're not you're not a girl though. You're a transgender girl. You're you're a boy that took different hormones and stuff like that. You blocked whatever puberty blockers and whatever you decided to do. Whatever your journey was. That's not that's not what a a woman is. Isn't it crazy that we even had to define that? Like I said, it's 1 + 1. If you add them together, it's two. It's like what do you mean? What do you mean? It's very clear. If you have two men and one has naturally higher testosterone levels than the other, but they're both biological men, you're not going to be like, "Well, that's more of a man than than that one." No, it's like that's a man. There's very few things that's like black and white. But this is one of them. And I'm not saying it's always. Don't you have like hermaphrodites or some like that? What what what are they?

45:39They don't even they don't even say. They just say hermaphrodites. You're neither or both. I don't know. That's like that's a true transgender. That's a true like I I I could be either. I could be either. Which one will I be? I don't know how that works. Maybe I shouldn't be speaking out of turn about hermaphrodites. All I know is those those type of births are very very very very rare. It's not like suddenly again you're running around seeing hermaphrodites and even even so and you're like hey what you got under there? Let me see. Let me see that vaginas. No, you're not you're not saying that. But I I feel like this has to be a dying argument. I felt like that. But then prepping for this show, I was determined. It took about like 10 seconds. But I was determined to find somebody that had an issue with this.

46:35That was just like no. A transgender boy turned to girl, I don't care where they were in their journey, should be allowed to compete. And when I'm talking about straight competition. So I I finally found somebody. Let uh without further ado let's see what this woman has to say.

46:58Joining us now to discuss this is Camilla B. Taylor, the deputy legal director for litigation at Lambda Legal. She argued on behalf of Becky Pepper Jackson, the plaintiff in the West Virginia case. Camilla, good morning and welcome. Uh give us your your reaction, your takeaways from this ruling and if you've spoken with Becky since uh how they might feel.

47:21Well, thank you very much for having me and this is a very disappointing decision for the handful of transgender young people who enjoy playing sports on teams with their their friends in school. Becky Pepper Jackson um is a very bubbly blonde um happy young person in West Virginia. She's in fact the only trans young person who plays sports in West Virginia to the knowledge of anyone in the case including the state. And uh she enjoyed playing discus with her friends uh on her

47:49Okay, before she continues talking about the discus and the sports and the play and she just wants to play and it's Becky. Think about Becky. All due respect to Becky, I don't care. She just wanted to play in sports. Is there not a men's discus team? What are you What are we talking about? I don't think cuz that would be wrong, too. I would be that I would still be that same person talking about this if they're saying, "Yeah, we we decided States decided to ban transgender athletes, period. You're not allowed." They're just saying, "Hey, you're not allowed to even though you you go by Becky now." Even though you claim you you identify or whatever, you've decided to be a girl. Reality is reality. Reality is undefeated against everybody. You can You can have all of these ideas in your head about what you think life is, but reality is still reality.

48:47And we're all battling with that. We all see things the way we see things. But Jesus Christ. I I think I think it would be wrong. Just to repeat it, I think it would be wrong if they said transgender athletes weren't allowed to compete, period. Like, sorry. You decided to go through this transition as a child. Um Okay. Side eyeing look at the parents. Whatever. Live and let live. You You don't get to compete with the girls, but you still get to compete You get to compete with the boys. And what what would be the issue with that? What you think they would make fun of you or something like that? I leave it all out on the field. That's like the nerd trying out for for the football team or some like that. It's like, "Okay. It's all fun and games until I start winning games." You feel me?

49:46It's just like and I'm I'm sorry. I know I know we are inclined because things have been so easy for people for so long that even our our poorest of people have it better than the people that live thousands and thousands of years ago. Now we just we feel like everybody needs to they need to be helped up. We need to make sure we're looking out for everybody. And and reality is undefeated. Nature is nature. So if the nerd was supposed to try out for the football team and the nerd never actually got good and they just got bullied and they ended up quitting the football team and they started the debate club and actually guess what? They got really good at debating and they went on to, you know, become rich and famous by being some famous commentator, a debater. I don't know. This This hypothetical scenario is getting away from me. That This is your journey. It's your journey. Guess what? It's nature. Hey, you got bullied out of it because then there's some people that are like, "Bro, you trying to bully me?

50:47You trying to You trying to like punk my ass or something? You think you think You think what?" And then they practice harder. And then they they they show up. They become undeniable. It all It all depends on your personality. I'm not going to sit here and say like, "Oh, people These These newer generations, they're so weak and people It's not It's not my point at all." I'm saying that this has always been a thing. There's people that they go through the wringer and they get burnt out. There's people that go through the wringer and they come out on top. It's always been a thing. People, no matter which you look at, no matter what metric you want to look at, there's people going to be better than other people. Some people are better at basketball than other people. Some people are better swimmers than other people. Now I uh I don't know the exact sciences behind like what what difference is between a male and a female. I I've heard it before. I didn't I'm going to be real. I didn't I didn't commit it to memory. I've heard it multiple times, actually, when this was a bigger a bigger thing.

51:47Same like the way that we like like see like spatial see like look at me. Look at me trying to to explain this But that's where we come down to. You have to sit here and break it down. Well, this is like No, I don't know. But at the same time I'm a just just putting it out there. Like I did see when I was in high school, I did wrestling for 2 years. I saw female wrestlers, not a trans woman or whatever the whatever. I don't even know like not a a guy trying to Yeah, it wasn't that. It wasn't that got me confused. It was an actual female. Born female. And was wrestling. Matter of fact ended up beating the that she was wrestling. And we thought it was cool as hell. We wasn't sitting there all like So, this is like Isn't that kind of hypocrisy though?

52:46But I guess it feels better when it's a David and Goliath type of situation. And I'm going to I'm going to be honest. She won out of technique. He was literally his entire and that's what we were talking the whole time. His entire strategy as a wrestler was to just manhandle her. Was to just use his body against her his strength. And again, wrestling just like boxing just like MMA, they are in weight classes. They are very very strict and it's not like like 20 30 lbs difference. It's like like It's like every like 10 lbs. It was like 145 155 160. It was It was some like that. It was like It was like a whole bunch of different weight classes is what I'm trying to say. They were about the same size. And he was able to use his strength against her. She was able to use her technique against him.

53:43Is that an argument for or against trans athletes participating whatever? I don't know. I don't know. I'm not I'm just telling you what I saw. And I remember that you know, because before your team goes up, it was like one of those competition things where like all of my school's team, we were just sitting in the bleachers together. So, we're just like all talking watching this other school go. It's like, damn, bro. He really He really He really getting You know, he really getting bodied out there. It's like if he wasn't stronger. It's like you could you could tell. And clearly it's not like I like videotaped it or something like that. My memory of it isn't perfect. It is fuzzy. But I remember us saying that. So, yeah, I don't know if that helps or hurts my stance on trans athletes. But all I guess it's just like me noting. Cuz I don't I'm I'm not on a team. So, it's just me noting. It's just me noticing that it didn't even cross my mind.

54:41The only thing that honestly crossed my mind there was just like, damn, this kind of like You know, this might be like dirty or vulgar or whatever, but it's like it's real. It's real Especially with teenagers, you know what I mean? Like I this is like junior and and senior year. My first thought was, damn, what if bro What if bro gets a boner? What if he gets hard while he's sitting here trying to wrestle? You feel me? And it's a lose-lose. It's a lose-lose. It's not like you could you could win and be like, yeah, bro, you see what I just did? Got her. No. And if you lose like he did, it's kind of just one of those like, ah. Yeah. You got beat. You got beat by a girl. And I'm not saying that as a bad thing. It's coming like one of those anything that you could do, she could do, too.

55:37So, yeah, it's a thinker, man. It's a thinker. But, to say that there was no strength advantage that he had would be wrong. But, it was kind of like that same story. You got the nerd getting We're taking genders out of it. You got the nerd they they show up for football. What the you doing here, loser? You got the typical jock, bully, Probably has, you know, brother, sisters for for parents. Like they You know, their brothers and sisters. He's inbred. You get what I'm saying? Inbred baby. Never mind. An And he looks at the nerd and he says, "What are you doing here? Think you can hang with us?" But, the nerd the nerd's kind of like one of those uh one of those like cliché like where it's like a sexy librarian where she takes the hair down. It's like, "Oh, and I never saw her so beautiful." Just cuz she had her hair up and glasses on. The nerd's like fit as underneath his shirts.

56:34He just like wears really baggy clothes just because, you know, he isn't he's he isn't from the the richest family. He gets a lot of hand-me-downs from his older brothers. And yeah, he gets picked on. He doesn't care. He doesn't He doesn't work on his body because he wants to show off like this like Trent over here. bully, inbred bully. No, he does it because it helps him deal with life, deal with all the bullies, all the all the whatever. He just likes to work out. They didn't know. So, this nerd knows everything about the sport. Knows the techniques. Not only gets on the team, he's on varsity. And you know what? Just to make the story even cooler, he is a freshman. Freshman on varsity. Take that, Trent. You inbred I'm on varsity now. Who's blocking for who now?

57:30And there's some hazing and like that, but guess what? When you're undeniable, nobody can say So, this nerd in this hypothetical fake story just kept trying, kept working until they were undeniable. That's how I feel about that girl on the wrestling team. It's like, yeah, he had strength over her. You know? Like, when I was on wrestling, there was plenty of people that were stronger than me, but they just they relied on their strength. So, it it's like anything where it could be used against you. Like, ah, you really you're strong, but you're not fast. Or you're fast, but you're not smart. You feel me? Like, you can use you can use your advantages against their weaknesses, so on and so forth. So, I don't know. I don't know. Maybe maybe that's why we're okay. You got a David and Goliath situation. Hey, if she wins, she wins. She just wants to she wants to step up. Why not? It'd be kind of sexist if we didn't wrestle her. Getting my first thought, it's like, damn.

58:27If I was wrestling a I wouldn't be sitting here thinking about like where I'm touching and like that. You know what I mean? It's just like, let's go, bro. Like, this You know what I mean? It's more like male testosterone and like, I'm going to win and competition. I think it might be maybe maybe that's what she did. Maybe that's how she got in people's heads. Like, ah, there you go. Now, when you go to touch my stomach, cuz one of the starting things is you have to like hold their elbow and hold like right on their stomach. It's it's kind of weird. It is it actually it actually sounds pretty gay if you just like describe that So, there's a sport and you're in these tights and you come up and you're behind them and you come

59:06But, damn, you do it to a girl and what was once just like, all right, we're about to go. Like, again, male testosterone, you're a teenager, you just want to you know what I mean? You just want to compete. Now, it's just like, oh, What do I touch and I hope I'm not being weird and me the Me Too movement and all of these things. I don't know. I don't know. So, there could be an argument for both sides. It's like, "Hey, let's just stick with our genders." And maybe that's where it all started. And they said with injuries, with unfair advantages. So it's not just about being unfair. It's like, "What What if you you injure them?" And even if this could have happened with a biological woman and a biological woman Can I just say two two women? I'm just going to start doing that. I'm sorry. I'm I'm so tired of saying biological before male or women. I'm so sick of it. It's so stupid It's so stupid. We're just going to say transgender man or woman for the other ones.

1:00:03So you got two women if if they are going at it in whatever sport and one of them gets injured, it's like, "Damn, it happens." Like you get injured. It's like part of It's part of the game. It's fine. You feel me? Where But if if one of them is a a trans woman and a woman and then that woman gets injured it's it's just not a good look. Even if it was happenstance, it's just not a good look because we do Like let's be real. Like in fact, there's so many couples I see out there where a dude is basically the same size as his girl. And honestly, like I I think I only got like 40 lbs on my girl. You feel me? So it's just like I think putting the size out of it, we all we all know. It's like, "Yeah, like I'm I'm stronger than you." It's not It's not one of those things where it's like like, "Yeah, let's let's arm wrestle, babe."

1:01:01I think because we're the You feel me? I I don't know. Like I said, I've seen couples where it's just like, "Bro, I might even be smaller than this chick." Or Or you know what? Let's just say

1:01:14Let's say you got the the cliché tall skinny dude with a big old BBW. Mhm. You telling me she's stronger cuz she's bigger? I mean them legs do got to carry that weight, but you telling me she can squat more, my You feel me? It's just sometimes I feel like common sense has been lost on us. So, I needed just like I needed that that case in Ohio to show me what real evil is, I needed this lawyer who's defending this like going against this state ban or whatever. I needed to see her to see like that you're real. You're a real thing. And it makes me a little bit suspicious, a little bit skeptical when they get paid for it. You're a lawyer. You it's in your best interest to continue more cases like this, to take on cases like this. Without a transgender if everybody is just like, you know what?

1:02:10Actually, it does make sense. Everybody just goes to their biological you know, sex. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. If you're a trans woman, unfortunately, I get it. You're Becky. You're a a girl or whatever. That's cool. We're not going to have any hazing, anything like that. That Those are already rules. So, if if somebody starts to haze you because of this, you let us know. Discrimination, anybody like that, they'll be off the team. This is zero tolerance. This is me if I was the coach. But uh yeah, you're going to have to come play with the boys. They're not going to They're not going to treat you different. And if they do, again, you come to me. You're welcome on this team. All I ask is just like everybody else, you show up and you show out. Cuz just like everybody else, you could not make the team. You could not make the cut. We are here on a merit basis. I'm only I'm only bringing on the best of this bunch. If that's you, great. I I genuinely don't care what you want your name to be.

1:03:09I genuinely don't care what you want to be referred to as, but I'mma be honest, I don't refer to any of these as hey, you're a young boy, Matthew over here. Like no, I said hey, what's up Matthew? You feel me? Like nobody's really looking and they're not characterizing people outwardly by their gender. But anyways, I'm sorry. This this person needs to continue making her case.

1:03:32High school team, uh track team. And uh she's of course very disappointed, but she's glad that she took on this fight not only on her own behalf, but on behalf of transgender young people across the country who've been targeted in really mean-spirited nasty uh bills across the country and now from the federal government as well, uh who try to deny that trans young people exist and paint them as threats even though they they are harming no one by participating in these teams.

1:03:58I don't I don't know the case. Just pausing there. I don't know the case she's specifically talking about, but who's denying that trans kids exist or trans people exist? Who's denying that? I don't think that this has been a denial of like the existence That's why It's like this is why it feels It's like the same playbook. Am Am I tripping? Am I in a What are those What's that old What's that old show where it's like black and white the like the Twilight Zone? Am I in a Twilight Zone episode? Is this an episode of Black Mirror, bro? Is that Is that what's going on? Am I being punked? Because she's using the same argument that people that support Israel. Like the the same one. They're just denying the existence. They just want to exist.

1:04:46Anything against it is obviously It's not homopho- transphobic. That's what it is. Couldn't think of it earlier. It's transphobia, transphobic. It's just you're you're scared. You hate. It's hatred. And when she said there's been mean-spirited attacks, I actually I believe her. I believe her. People are are really mean about everything. Not just trans, but you could be gay, you could be black, you could be white, you could be whatever. I I bet I bet if you ask a German person If you ask a German person how many times somebody just casually, like a friend or something, has made some sort of joke as if they are somehow related to the atrocities performed by Hitler and the Nazis just for being German. You feel me? Like that My point by saying that is you can literally find anything.

1:05:43People will be mean about anything. And it's also just one of those things. Now what? So what? Not like it doesn't matter, but let's move on. You know, it's just something that I teach my kids. It's You know, you teach small little kids that. Like oh, like this person thinks this. It's like okay. Well, why does that matter to you? Well, I just because I'm not that and this is Okay, well, they're entitled to their opinion. And that's all right. You're not going to be able to change it. You will go crazy trying to change their mind. You'd be better off accepting that other people live in a different way than you. And when they see you living in a different way, it angers them. It makes them confused why you're not living the way that they prefer to. And then some people, they don't have the the emotional maturity, I guess.

1:06:43They don't have the ability to see from other points of views enough where they just they look at that as an attack, as you're evil. Like I was saying earlier. Completely disregarding the real evil in the world. So, I I believe that she's probably getting attacks about this. That she's probably had attacks just like I've had racist talked about to me even when I was a kid. Oh my god, and I'm still here. I'm still here. You know, and I'm not excusing it obviously. It's like you're saying racism is okay? Shut the up. Shut up. No. I'm not saying it's okay. But what did you expect when you turned your little boy into a girl?

1:07:32And when I say you turned, obviously Becky here, all due respect, Beck Beck, Becky here clearly also wanted this. But it wasn't something that she See, live and let live. I don't give a It wasn't something that she was able to do until she was 18. Her parents let this happen. What did you expect was going to happen? You feel me? It's just like you you were liable to get picked on at school even if like there's like nothing to to be picked on. You feel me? Like I I don't know. I don't know. It's it's one of those things that it's just a rite of passage. It's bound to happen. If not now, it'll be later. And if if not now, later if you're not equipped with the ability to just continue living life and not turning it into some big huge fight.

1:08:27Not saying that that's the case here. This is obviously a different thing. It's not the same thing. But without turning it into some big fight, well, later when it happens, you you just won't be equipped to handle it. It'll be too much. It'll it'll be overwhelming. Like

1:08:43Oh my gosh, it'll be a complete attack on you as an individual. You won't be able to handle it. I think I think using the fact that people are transphobic, using the hate in other people's heart to give fuel to the reasoning behind having these crazy ass laws like trans women in women's sports. It's it's crazy. And yes, these cases this the only athlete in the entire state were cool. Let's change everything for you. The fact that they even had to do this for you. Because you just had to be on the girls team, right? Everybody has to conform to you. It's the same it's the same thing. The same thing that you're like all these transphobics, they think that I'm not allowed to exist and and because I am the way I am they think that I should just be how God made me and all that.

1:09:40That's them putting their lifestyle, the way that they prefer people live their life, they're putting that on you. Can you not see that you're doing the same thing? And there is a balance between look, I'm just asking for my rights. And you wanting people to go completely out of the way. And by you, I don't mean this this child obviously. This is just a kid. And that's why I just like anybody that attacks this little kid. Again, remember it's a little kid. You know, that's I honestly that's the only thing that makes me side eye. Earlier I made a comment towards the parents about side eyeing the fact that they let this happen. I I just don't agree. I don't agree. Live and let live. It's your parents I it's your kids rather. I I think

1:10:24I think it's crazy, but if it comes to people like Becky's parents being able to make the decision and the state, the government being able to make the decision on whether or not Becky can you know, become a a transgender. I think that's that's a clearer choice. That's I think the parents should. Just like I think the parents should have the the authority with most things. Clearly there's laws against any child abuse, child neglect, situations like in Ohio we talked about earlier. There's already laws against that. There's already laws in place for that. So,

1:11:06I I don't I don't know. It's It's the same I guess it's the same concept where live and let live. Why shouldn't kids be allowed to have a tattoo? Well, in Florida you could be like 16 or some and get one with your parents' consent. So,

1:11:20It's like I guess. It's like you said, I guess I just don't see a world where the kid doesn't look back and be like, "Damn." Even if it's a good decision. I'm glad this was a good decision cuz thinking about how my mind worked from when I was 16 or whatever compared to now, ooh, I lucked out that that was a good decision for me. So, even in that case it's just like, "You really gambled with my life." And I have a cousin that went to college, became I started identifying as a trans woman or whatever. And when he left when she left college, she became a he. You see how confusing that was? Obviously, no hate in my heart towards my cousin. It's just uh

1:12:06My point is, if you let the decision of somebody when they're younger be permanent, that's when it's just like, they're really just not at that age where it's like, "Yeah, I know I want it." You said you wanted it. It's like, "Yeah, but come on." You know? It's like It's like, "I know I said I wanted it, but I was like You know what my my daughter also says she she she wants a yes day and she wants to she wants to go ride a horse." You know, I'm I'm just making up. I'm saying like my daughter says she wants things that happen to be crazy as Where it's just like, "Why How would we do that? What Like How would you do that? How would you be able to" I'm trying to think of some example. But it's like let's just say like, "Oh, I just want to ride a unicorn until I wake" She didn't say that. She knows that unicorns aren't real. So, I guess she's a little bit more of a realist in that, but she is 6 years old and she has she has wants and desires that that don't really match reality. And I told you about the uh scorecard when it comes to reality.

1:13:06Reality wins. So, it's almost our job. I guess that's why I would side I a parent that's like, "Yeah, they want it." I would support it cuz I've I've thought long and hard about this. Like, how would How would I How would I react? What would I do? So, cuz I know for damn sure I wouldn't be one of those, "Oh, not in my house. Here's the Bible. I'll tell you that much." Like, "What? No." Live and let live. I love the I love this theme. I love this theme, the power of love, right? I think I I would accept it for one. But, you're not getting on any anything that changes anything. That's just me. You're not changing your biology. You're not changing You're not You're definitely not doing any surgeries. That's crazy. I think we're going to look back at that as something barbaric that we did in more modern times.

1:14:05But, to just to just deny it, you can't do that either. So, yeah. I say indulge it like any any any potentially just a just like a fad or whatever they they call it, like a phase. It's like Like you got the kid that's like a gothic emo out of nowhere and starts listening to screamo and listening and wearing all black and, you know what I mean? Black fingernails, the whole the whole nine yards. And then a couple years later they have rainbows and, you know, peace and love and all of that It's like kids go through phases even even as teenagers, even as young adults. Especially as a man, let's be real, most of these conversations, for some reason, tend to lead lean towards more the trans women. So, there's already talking about science and like that. There's already been studies that say that our brains are fully developed until we're like 24.

1:15:02So, and I for one, as a male, as a man, can attest to that that that is that's true. I feel a difference. And it's not like it's like, "Oh, like I'm in I'm out of the matrix now." Some like that. No. I'm just saying like, yeah, the same way you can look back at a younger version of you and say, "Damn, I was stupid." It's it's kind of a hit on the ego, but I can look at 21, 22, 23, 24-year-old me and be like, "Damn." And it's not like I'm some old man, 31. So, it's hasn't even been 10 years since my brain fully developed, but I can still look back and be like, "Yeah, that uh I I didn't think the same. In fact, even just these past couple years, I can feel myself thinking differently." In a in a positive way. And this is growth. So, putting all of that on a kid, yeah, I think it it's almost on you as a parent to say, "I believe you.

1:16:01This is how you feel. Let's just let's wait it out with everything that's permanent that can't we can't go back from. And if you still feel that way when you're grown, hey, I won't be able to out-support you regardless. But that way I won't feel like I'm doing you a disservice, possibly." "Oh, but I know this is what I want." Awesome. And then you could just bring up something else that they knew that they wanted. Every kid does it. Every parent has a story. Remember when you wanted this? Yeah. And then what happened? Well, I started the sport and then I stopped doing the sport. I just didn't like it that much. Or I got the dog and then I didn't want to walk the dog. Or I just never fed the dog. You know what I mean? It's like you have these desires and then when the responsibility comes, it's a little different. So, uh let's just hear a little bit more about what she has to say.

1:16:45I do want to be clear though, this decision is confined to sports. It does not enable discrimination against transgender people more broadly. The court was very clear that it was upholding the ban in West Virginia and in Idaho exclusively because of the state's alleged concerns about safety and competitive fairness in athletics specifically. So, the case says nothing about discrimination against transgender people in other aspects of public life.

1:17:12And Camilla, I want to ask you about what people consider to be fairness. Idaho is among states with a ban on

1:17:18Okay, I don't I don't care. So, I mean, all you said was, yeah, this isn't this isn't being this isn't going against trans people in any other way. This is just about trying to keep the young women safe, the the women athletes safe. Maybe maybe a new league, but we can't do a whole new trans league. You know why? Cuz there's not enough trans athletes. So, it's like I think honestly it would even be a better story for a trans woman to go compete in the male division or whatever and dominate. And say, yeah, And I I honestly don't want to listen to her anymore. She ends up making a case that basically because Becky gets the puberty blockers before going through puberty. Another side eye to these parents. Live and let live. It's your child again between you and the state. I choose what you chose. I'm just saying like that just I couldn't imagine as somebody with kids. But that's her argument saying that, hey, she she got these puberty blockers before going through puberty.

1:18:20What advantage? What are we even talking about? And that's that's insane. That's it's it's I I just genuinely don't know what to say. I needed to know it was real. So, now, you know, I I saw it. I saw it and I feel well informed. So, I'm I'm for one happy that states get to at least decide. I think that as more and more states do this, it's already more than half. 27 have already tried. I think other states are going to be like, "Yeah, me too." You're going to have the Californias and New Yorks that are like, "Nah, bro." But, uh I think we're finally going to stop all of this madness.